Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc.

abyss
Tester

Posts: 9

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 17, 2015 20:42:54 GMT

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Post by abyss on Nov 17, 2015 20:42:54 GMT

OKAY! So let me begin by saying I love so much of this server, the crafting system is cool, the professions are fantastic, the areas are amazing....I just feel it could use some tweaks....

Lets start with something that I just found hilarious yesterday.

BUTCHER: The 'butchering knife' is in reality a handaxe LOL...A +2 ab, keen handaxe lol. I'd just like if it looked more like a cleaver maybe. Make it into a shortsword? ((There is a cleaver type appearance for it.

COOK: I feel that of all the professions this one is rather lackluster....Maybe I don't understand its perk?....Everyone has the ability to cook....The only difference I know of is that the cook can do it anywhere?

ALCHEMIST: This one is perhaps the largest one...There is nothing really -wrong- with it as it stands. This is more something that I'd like to see added to it. I'd like to see Fire Bombs and Acid Bombs added to their list if at all possible? Maybe it takes 5 or so alchemist fires to make a firebomb. If not that is perfectly fine. I understand how strong those can be.

Alternatively! I would love to see them be able to take Arrows and Alchemical items to make to make elemental style arrows. Acid Flask + Arrow = Acid arrow. Alchemist fire + arrow = fire arrows etc.

This last part is more a question than anything. Why is alchemist the only one that doesnt use crafting points and uses gold instead? I'm not saying it needs to be changed, I was just curious lol.

MINER: Sadly this class takes up a LOT of time with little reward as it is now...You can make tons of gold which you have no use for or you can trade in ore for Fullplate or helms....The iron ones are actually weaker than the ones crafters can make, the mithril ones are on par, the adamantine are the only really awesome ones at a whopping +2.

In addition the fact that you have to beat against a mineral deposit to generate random chunks of ore seems a bit strange...You would think that a miner would know what he is harvesting...You would think that they could find veins of the ore they wanted/needed rather than hitting a rock and seeing what fell out. Maybe make different deposits across the world of gold, and copper, and mithril etc.

KNIGHT: The entire thing you get is a suit of armor and a helm that are rapidly outpaced by other gear you can get crafted at level 1. I think they could use -something.- Not sure what...Maybe let them make barricades like the guards? Maybe give them an item with +paladin spell slots?....Not sure. A bless weapon 1x day item would be amazing for them. Though those might be better for a paladin only profession. But it does seem to fit here.

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PROFESSION GEAR: So....I have run into this issue more times than I can count....Can't get rid of the profession gear...Half the time it sits in your inventory heavier than sin and you can't toss it unless you get a dm to pull it. I don't mind the pickaxe or the like being non dropable but a suit of heavy armor can be a vicious weight heh

CONTAINERS: This goes hand in hand with the profession gear.....You can craft containers but NONE of them can be traded or given away....This both limits a trade skill AND really really hinders rp. Not to mention the fact that if you die everything in those boxes is locked in your inventory, including the res scrolls you might have that could have saved you lol.

TOOLS: In the module we have found crafting tools etc but when you lave the area they are taken away....This kinda breaks my immersion as rply id want to take many of those with my character to bring them back to our home.

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SEARCHING: Okay....For starters....For a server with such high dcs I think there are all of 3 classes that actually get search lol...And when you combine DC 11+s with the search tables that have 4+ types of booze and spoiled food attached to them it becomes exceptionally rare to get any food for people. And at this point youd think anyone that has survived 5 years can search..Maybe add search as a class skill to all classes? Maybe give everyone a Survivor mark that gives them a +2 search? who knows.

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ZOMBIES: +14 ab in the only starting area may be a bit excessive...Especially when they can do 11damage ((it hurt lol)). Id like to see the damage get dropped a little (so they dont one shot every mage ever ^_-) and the ab lowered...Zombie survival is about dealing with the hordes. A well trained adventurer should be able to drop one zombie on its own, maybe two....3+ and they should be in big trouble. 5+ Should be doom (for lower levels at least).

Just an idea to make melee chars viable without needing max gear and expertise out the gate.

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These are just a few basic things I found. I will probably add to this thread as we go. And any players that have concerns I haven't added can freely message me to add them if we want them all in one spot or if they want to remain anonymous for some reason.

In closing I just want to see how much I love this server again. And I know many of these things are being looked into. I just wanted to have this up.

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A NEW ADDITION APPROACHES!

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ORES: Please for the love of god make these stackable......that is all lol.

I have close to two full pages of ore.

Last Edit: Nov 19, 2015 23:25:34 GMT by abyss

Tweek
Scripter

Massively Overqualified

Funshine, funshine, focus on the tactics, focus on the enemy!

Posts: 122

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 18, 2015 20:08:07 GMT

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Post by Tweek on Nov 18, 2015 20:08:07 GMT

Good discussion points! Since this thread has been quiet so far - here's some news, or just my thoughts on your points:

Professions as a Whole: We have a huge overhaul planned for this topic. Professions were originally designed for a much smaller power scope, and it's why you wind up with them being largely irrelevant on the server as it is now. Way back, that knight gear was actually pretty damn good compared to what you could make/find. Our goals for professions are to make them skin-friendly, and to have them tied into the module in some interactive way. Some may still start with some gear but it should be an element rather than the entire profession. And yes - we'll make them droppable. I imagine the original intention was to keep people from farming equipment by logging in as tons of different characters and dropping their gear. This could be accomplished with a profession trashbin or something.

Tools: I think the idea here is that these are the few rare tools that managed to be salvage, and they're left somewhere in particular so that anyone can use them - mechanically, so that it's not trivial to use them.

Searching: The difficulty here is a good thing, in my opinion. Finding food is not meant to be a trivial thing. "Surviving" in the truest sense of the word doesn't mean you're going to come home with something every attempt you make.

Zombies: I'd agree that they're too strong near the starting home. This was another piece of fallout from the old module progression - after years of playing we had a bunch of level 5+ characters and the zombies were too easy. I could definitely see dropping their damage and attack bonus a bit. I actually disagree with the idea of new-ish characters being able to easily fell a zombie or two. They're meant to be incredibly powerful compared to your average stock. There's a reason why the surrounding cities have not been able to deal with the zombie problem on Siranda. If people can easily fell a zombie or two near the safehouse, the threat that they pose in terms of atmosphere is wildly diminished.

Prestige
Dungeon Master

Ramsay Snow IRL

Posts: 23

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 19, 2015 0:06:56 GMT

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Post by Prestige on Nov 19, 2015 0:06:56 GMT

I'd say that the zombies don't RPly need to be that strong. They are still humanoids, and in the case of reasonably armed and armored survivors, they are still up against humanoids wearing massively superior equipment. The advantage that undead get over survivors should be numbers, rather than being capable of beating a guy in full plate half to death in single combat. To combat this problem, I'd say that the introduction of undead knights/guards would be appropriate: heavy armor, broken weapons, etc. Something like that should be threatening to a beginning survivor.

Having said that, I'd also like to see some stat adjustments. Make dwarven zombies have higher HP, lower the HP on half orcs, possibly give halflings and gnomes some bonus AC and possibly make the disease DC higher for them so they aren't quite so worthless. I also think that mutants need across-the-board buffs. The sight of one of those should be cause for a "oh god run away RUN AWAY" type reaction that is presently pretty unique to hunters.

Prestige
Dungeon Master

Ramsay Snow IRL

Posts: 23

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 19, 2015 0:54:33 GMT

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Post by Prestige on Nov 19, 2015 0:54:33 GMT

Elijah was able to kill a leaper easily enough. It doesn't have a great deal of HP. The revenant and flesh reaper are both extremely weak as well. The Behemoth would be scary if it was a little faster, and the hunter is right where it belongs.

Right, as for the zombies being strong: you need to balance for new characters with regards to zombies found in the starting areas. And I'm not advocating for complete immunity, just a bit of insulation that gradually grows and grows. Having said that, I don't think there's a way to make zombies fair for low-levels and threatening to medium-high levels without making the process of growing to a higher power-level not feel rewarding and worthwhile.

ghost4life
Survivor

Posts: 39

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 19, 2015 13:42:23 GMT via mobile

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Post by ghost4life on Nov 19, 2015 13:42:23 GMT

If we are talking RPly, a player in full plate should not be able to outrun a hunter, or swing a sword for hours on end. If we are talking RPly, leather or chain armour is the best armor for a given situation because of weight to protection ratio. If we are talking RPly, a full plate wearer should be at a humongous disadvantage due to the fact that they're basically a walking (not running) can of meat.

So we aren't talking RPly because no amount of training and exercise is going to account for the encumbrance of wearing sheets of plated steel on your person for any extended length of time (much less running at a full sprint from one town to another.)

I think it is safe to say that we are talking mechanics. And mechanically, it has never been the safest job being a melee fighter. You're literally picking one of the toughest roles in the game because you're choosing to play meat shield. This job by all rights would not have a very long life expectancy. These zombies are not just average joes, they are magically created and often magically controlled, walking bits of nightmare flesh. It is not difficult to go from level 1 to level 2, which is plenty of HP for anyone to be able to survive.

Here is another issue. If you make starting area zombies easier, then you have players who will farm the piss out of those zombies because it is easy XP. Zombie survival has never been meant to be wholesale zombie slaughter. It's meant to be oh crap a zombie, run! This isn't the walking dead, this isn't your typical zombie horror movie where they are shambling dead people brought back by a nameless thing. This is Dark Hour. A place where the typical zombie is super tough and incredibly durable. This land is no longer ours, it's theirs. We are the parasite that they are attempting to stomp out. Parasitesdon't typically live a very long time in a host... but occasionally they can grow to be strong enough to kill it....

(Sorry if rambling, I'm on 15 minutes of sleep last night. Also sorry if I was rude in my post, no sleep makes for no mouth filter...

Last Edit: Nov 19, 2015 16:46:58 GMT by ghost4life

Tweek
Scripter

Massively Overqualified

Funshine, funshine, focus on the tactics, focus on the enemy!

Posts: 122

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 19, 2015 17:23:34 GMT

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Post by Tweek on Nov 19, 2015 17:23:34 GMT

Overall I don't think there should be any area where zombies are trivial/relatively non-threatening, particularly for low level characters. If you remove the threat of them in the immediate vicinity of SunDes, this ceases to be a "survival" server.

I wish the idea of "one is ok, being swarmed is not" worked just given the thematic standpoint, but that's just not how d20 works. A group of level 1 characters will always be trivial for a decently-equipped level 5 character to deal with. Couple that with the movement speed of our beloved zombies and there's just no way they can really swarm someone unless that someone is stupid and gets themselves into the situation in the first place.

It should be noted too that all of these mutants were designed with the intention of being extremely threatening to level 1-2 characters with shoddy gear. They've not all kept up with the growing power of equipment and XP gains.

Last Edit: Nov 19, 2015 18:05:40 GMT by Tweek

Terallis
Seasoned Survivor
>8( so mad

I'M TOO GOOD AT VIDO GAAAEEEMMMS!

Posts: 74

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 19, 2015 19:17:01 GMT

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Post by Terallis on Nov 19, 2015 19:17:01 GMT

To be fair, though, even survival servers need to have some form of coherent progression from a level design standpoint. For people who aren't exactly sure what they're doing, the starting area could easily kill them the moment they step out of Sundered Desolation. Currently, the progression of the server is "Hard Mode" leading up to "Stupidly Insane Mode" in the higher level areas. I'm not saying to make the zombies super weak, but to drop them down to something more of a "Medium/Normal" mode at the very start. It can become super disconcerting to new players to be level one (or two with a bio) and no actual gear, step outside thinking they'll get at least some leeway for starting, and then suddenly die in under five minutes. To me, it's more a matter of need a bit better balance.

On that note, however, there are plenty of other things that can stop higher levels from just using the lower level areas for fast XP or what-have-you. A big one is making certain areas stop yielding xp for simple zombie kills after a certain level, for instance. Additionally, when it comes to balance, things right now don't actually feel all that balanced. If NWN's hitboxes (for the sake of getting AoOs) weren't super huge, it wouldn't be as bad. But that's not really something that can be changed. So, therefore, it's better to add a bit more balance to counteract NWN's stupidity. I can't count the number of times where I've been, what seemed to be, way out of reach of a creature (whether on a ZS or normal server) just to be hit. Hell, on ZSR, a character of mine was one shot, ten minutes after I made them because of that alone.

So, all-in-all, don't make the server too easy as that's also super unbalanced. But as things are, in most cases, it can also be too difficult, especially for new players. It's not all that balanced right now. (Also, I do have to agree that a +14 AB is stupidly high for the starting area. Like /ridiculously/ high. Maybe drop it to like... even +10 would be better than that. Still able to hit rather easily, but not something where even highly armoured people are getting hit every other round or less.)

Characters
Aedan Terallis - Human Fighter/Knight
Beryl Stonecleaver - Dwarven Berserker
Garen Lakral - Aasimar Priest of Tamara

martyr
Developer

Posts: 33

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 20, 2015 4:12:44 GMT

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Post by martyr on Nov 20, 2015 4:12:44 GMT

Honestly, the mere idea of making a Survival server easier to Survive in, is total phooey. It takes away from what makes it special; your characters are not supposed to feel okay leaving the home, there are monsters that eat people - lots of people, so many in fact, that there are practically none left alive. You being afraid of losing your character to a one shot is perfect. It's just the same as your character worrying about leaving the house, only to be bitten, eaten, and pulled apart.

What's the point in a Survival horror module, where none of it is horrific, nobody dies, and it's easy peasy to get by? You're supposed to starve, that's why there's a mechanic, you're supposed to wait out Midnight, you're supposed to feel uneasy, all the goddamn time, it's the end of the world.

Geeze.

epitaxis
Survivor
-Gnolls-

Posts: 37

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 20, 2015 4:23:06 GMT

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Post by epitaxis on Nov 20, 2015 4:23:06 GMT

I want to keep the zombie survival... Zombie. Survival.
But I do disagree with how strong a simple commoner zombie is. But I don't want them any easier. I like where the difficulty the server is at right now (That's just personal preference though). But I'm going to argue more for realism.. The generic zombie does quite a bit of damage and to certain people, they'll one shot the poor guys which.. Sucks.

But since they're zombies, I was thinking more along the lines of, reducing their damage by a third to a half, but adding reflex vs slow (Like, 1 round slow.). The reason for the slow is, the zombies are killing people because they're hungry. So no doubt they'll be trying to grab you. Thus the slowing. That would make lowbies trying to run by have a -slightly- larger chance at getting away and make hordes something just terrifying.

As for zombie AB? I thought it was rather high due to their proximity to the castle or something, these were higher level zombies and the starting area (On the updated module) be in a more fitting place with zombies of slightly less AB if I wasn't mistaken?

Cloaky
Fresh Survivor

Posts: 6

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc. Nov 20, 2015 4:54:38 GMT

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Post by Cloaky on Nov 20, 2015 4:54:38 GMT

Nov 20, 2015 4:23:06 GMT epitaxis said:

but adding reflex vs slow (Like, 1 round slow.). The reason for the slow is, the zombies are killing people because they're hungry. So no doubt they'll be trying to grab you. Thus the slowing. That would make lowbies trying to run by have a -slightly- larger chance at getting away and make hordes something just terrifying.

I really like this idea. Even for a stronger character, it would be detrimental to get slowed and swarmed. It would mean that weaker characters definitely need to be dodging and avoiding zombies (attacking from a distance if necessary), but also stronger characters will be less inclined to try to combat more than a couple zombies in melee.

Some random ideas. Professions, boxes, searches etc.

Post by abyss on Nov 17, 2015 20:42:54 GMT

Post by Tweek on Nov 18, 2015 20:08:07 GMT

Post by Prestige on Nov 19, 2015 0:06:56 GMT

Post by Prestige on Nov 19, 2015 0:54:33 GMT

Post by ghost4life on Nov 19, 2015 13:42:23 GMT

Post by Tweek on Nov 19, 2015 17:23:34 GMT

Post by Terallis on Nov 19, 2015 19:17:01 GMT

Post by martyr on Nov 20, 2015 4:12:44 GMT

Post by epitaxis on Nov 20, 2015 4:23:06 GMT

Post by Cloaky on Nov 20, 2015 4:54:38 GMT

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